(LK)
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Post by (LK) on Apr 23, 2004 16:07:59 GMT -5
what's that
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Post by Static Burn on Apr 23, 2004 17:44:40 GMT -5
Stuff that kills sperm to prevent fertilization
As for the point you brought up, Elfie, that is something I should have thought of but never did. I guess circular logic is the best way to explain it: "It's none of your business because it's not a bad thing and it's not a bad thing because it's none of your business."
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Post by Elfie on Apr 23, 2004 18:18:41 GMT -5
That's true Static, but I'm okay with abortion for more than just that reason. That's just one that is commonly used that doesn't really make sense to me.
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Post by DarkAngel on Apr 24, 2004 22:28:50 GMT -5
But, since you bring it up, why shouldn't, for example, two cousins who have each other's consent, be able to do what they want in the privacy of their own homes? I agree with you pinata, sort of. That law is in place because if members of the same family bear a child, it is something like 4 times more likely to be born with defects. Wow, Alicia and Bass talking about sex is confusing me, am i like the only virgin here ![:-X](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/lipssealed.png)
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Post by kemykal on Apr 25, 2004 2:22:53 GMT -5
[rant]people may stand by their opinions, but i find it strange that those people would tell someone what to do when they have never been in that person's position. i have a friend that became pregnant at the age of 19, going to college paid by herself, loans, and scholarships, had a part time job, and was completely self-sustaining. the father was a fling so the pregnancy was a mistake. her family was very religious and called her a whore, but told her to keep the child. they refused to support her or the child though, so she would have had to quit school, work more to pay for her, the child, and the loans, putting her near a state of poverty. she chose to get an abortion. now her family refuses to speak to her even though they hardly made an effort to begin with. its people like that that really piss me off.
i guess my point is that you must take it situation to situation. regulating it suggests that each person's life runs along the same guidelines, but that couldnt be further from the truth. most people with anti-abortion views do not take into account the weight a child will have on that person's life and consequently on the life of the child. odds are if the parents have a rough life with a child, the child has a rough life as well. so ultimately it is the choice of the could-be-mother because she is the only one who has the right to determine the direction of her life. no one can make such a drastic decision for her.[/rant]
sorry for the very personal perspective. i have a bit of... lets say experience in this subject so i got kinda heated.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on Apr 25, 2004 3:47:51 GMT -5
kemy> I totally agree with you on that, you sometimes have to look at things at another person's point of view rather then to be so egocentric about it.
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Post by DarkAngel on Apr 25, 2004 9:15:41 GMT -5
Thats a good point i guess kemy, but...its still taking a life, did she use any precautions while having sex? If she did, then thats ok, but if she didnt, thats her own fault for getting pregnant.
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Post by Alicia on Apr 25, 2004 12:10:25 GMT -5
Right now I have a horrible urge to rant..but I won't...cause it'll get ugly....Okay, maybe a little.
Kemy made very good points.
One thing I still want to hold a flashing sign over.
Have any of you guys everbeen through menstration? Of course not. IT'S HELL! I want to slaughter innocent puppies for a week...
Giving birth to a child? OMG...I don't even wanna think about it.
For some of you to say, well if you used precautions and still got pregnant it's okay to get an abortion...the reason this arguement came up is because some are trying to do away with abortions, how many people are going to lie about usign protection?
While I believe a father should have some decision in a child's life I don't think they should be able to decide whetehr or not the girl gets one. Let's face it, when it comes to most familes a mother plays a more involved role. Not to mention having to carry a child. That's the rest of your life with that child. How can you support a child if you can't get a decent job because of the education you're lacking because of that child?
Bass said that there are always the grandparents to step in and help... From what i hear about Bass' parents they're an understanding type of people. My parents? I'd living on the street and they wouldn't give a fecal matter. I know how much bryan's parents would love me asking to move in with the three of them.....Yeah, I think both bryan and I would be booted out on our asses if either of our parents were told I was pregnant.
So really, Like Kemykal said it's a case by case type of thing.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on Apr 25, 2004 13:06:49 GMT -5
besides, it's kinda painful....
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Post by DarkAngel on Apr 25, 2004 16:30:59 GMT -5
Have any of you guys everbeen through menstration? Of course not. Well actually, there was this one time when...d'i mean no i have NO idea what you are talking about.
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Post by SuperBassX84 on Apr 26, 2004 0:40:15 GMT -5
Does one's ass bleeding count? Cause if so, then no, I haven't.
I have a confession.
Though I stand true to my beliefs, I must say, I haven't ever been in a situation where such a thing could occur. I must also say that if through some fluke Tammy got pregnant now, it'd almost certainly be aborted. As much as I hate to say it, it's one of those cases where it would simply not work. However, we have taken precautions, so I suppose I'm not being entirely hypocritical...actually, I'm not being very hypocritical at all....am I? -=Goes to reread his first post about it=-
Ok, I reread my post and decided that I'm not being hypocritical. We've used different forms of prevention, both timing/pulling and condoms. In terms of lying about the fluke, Alicia, it should be fairly obvious whether or not the people are lying. I mean, c'mon, most people suck at acting.
And as far as my parents go, my Mom would give me a stern lecture, but should the child be kept, would help out as much as she could.
My Dad probably wouldn't talk to me for a year, and would VERY slowly come around. My Dad's not a big fan of his kids having sex. -=coughhypocritecough=-
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Post by kemykal on Apr 26, 2004 1:07:17 GMT -5
My Dad probably wouldn't talk to me for a year, and would VERY slowly come around. My Dad's not a big fan of his kids having sex. -=coughhypocritecough=- calling him a hypocrite suggests to me that he has sex with his children. maybe im just reading this wrong. maybe? ![O_o](//storage.proboards.com/549948/images/cHyikpE0TexktZZuZJJp.gif)
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Post by DarkAngel on Apr 26, 2004 10:00:43 GMT -5
Kemy, just....god no...*shudders*
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Post by SuperBassX84 on Apr 26, 2004 10:16:26 GMT -5
Yes, you're definitely reading this wrong.
The point I was trying to make was that my Dad turned 17 in 1970. His late teen (I think) and even moreso his early 20s were spent smoking pot and fooling around with women. He has no right to tell me that I can't have sex with my girlfriend whom I love, nor any other woman for that matter if I so choose (Not that I will. Tammy > All).
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Post by kemykal on Apr 26, 2004 12:54:41 GMT -5
he has every right to tell you cause perhaps he felt it was a bad part of his life and he doesnt want you to o through that. however, he should understand that, including himself, people must learn from their mistakes. im sure his parents told him to not do those things, but he didnt listen either. why? because he thought he could handle it. he more than likely believed he was mature enough to do the things "the adults" told him not to do. after going through life and these experiences, he then realised that he was not and that he did not make the right choices. this shifts his moral perspective and since you are his child, his morals are forced upon you.
thats just the normal explaination for parent-child relationships that are similar to what you have described. it may be completely different in your case and i may be talking out of my @$$ because i havent recieved much detail from you, but this is pretty much the sum of what i have seen.
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Post by SuperBassX84 on Apr 26, 2004 14:08:00 GMT -5
Good assumption. You hit the nail pretty dead-on.
The only stupid thing about my Dad is that he admits his Dad told him the same thing and he knows I have to do the same thing, too. Then he proceeds to lecture me for an hour about why he's right and I shouldn't do it. Moron...
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Lauren
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Post by Lauren on Apr 26, 2004 14:46:06 GMT -5
Have any of you guys everbeen through menstration? Of course not. IT'S HELL! I want to slaughter innocent puppies for a week... First of all, I think we are all shocked that I haven't responded to this topic as soon as i saw the debate forum was updated.... I tried to stay away.... @ Alicia- Is yours really that bad? Man... I know If I had a child, there would be know way in hell that i would abort it... unless it was a product of incest. Which is basically hell. Sure my ma would be severly pissed... but she would help me out... Even if a child is defected Mentally, Physically... w.e. I think that you deciding for them that they don't want a life because they are defected is wrong. I think the laws concerning Abortion should be: Absolutley NO abortion, except for cases of incest or if it would kill the mother to go through with it.
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Post by kemykal on Apr 26, 2004 14:52:39 GMT -5
think about it from his point of view. he is trying his hardest to make sure you dont screw your life up. if he didnt tell you not to do these things and you did them, then that would make him look like a bad parent for not being responsible for you. remember that he wants what he believes is best for you just as you would most likely want what is best for your child. it is hard for a most parents to let loose the innocent image they have of their children, so it is difficult for them to determine at what point their kids actually grow up and can make their own intelligent decisions. he lectures you out of love, not merely to scold you. so whenever he "lectures", consider it advice from an experienced person that loves you and is looking out for you and not a type of nagging.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on Apr 26, 2004 16:14:45 GMT -5
First of all, I think we are all shocked that I haven't responded to this topic as soon as i saw the debate forum was updated.... I tried to stay away.... @ Alicia- Is yours really that bad? Man... I know If I had a child, there would be know way in hell that i would abort it... unless it was a product of incest. Which is basically hell. Sure my ma would be severly pissed... but she would help me out... Even if a child is defected Mentally, Physically... w.e. I think that you deciding for them that they don't want a life because they are defected is wrong. I think the laws concerning Abortion should be: Absolutley NO abortion, except for cases of incest or if it would kill the mother to go through with it. that's your opinion, what if the parents don't help support the child and the guy just leaves the girl to have the kid? What does she do then? just because you wouldn't abort doesn't mean you should shut off the option to do so. edit: this is just like the time that republican woman try to ban masturbation because she thought it was wrong along with those baptist churches trying to ban craw fish or shrimp because "god doesn't like it"
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Post by Alicia on Apr 26, 2004 17:19:24 GMT -5
Bravo LK...Bass, give the man some points, I liked that argument. Situations are different...My parents wouldn't be so understanding. Won't even touch upon the subject of sex. I can see how parents caution their children though, my sister says she regrets having sex so young (17) but then you look at who it was with and I could have predicted that long before it happened. I lost my virginity at age 15...Something I'll tell to my kids. I'll make sure if they're gonna have sex they're safe. Even buy them condoms if I'm asked. I'll also be able to tell them the person i lost their virginity to was their father. Abortion is a touchy subject. But as LK said, Lauren, just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean other people agree. Same idea with homosexual marriage. Just because you think it's wrong shouldn't stop other people from going about their business. So really it depends on the case (with abortion) But let's face it...at 14, 15, 16 years old how the Fork would any of us raise a kid? If I was pregnant i think I'd try...Seeing as how Bryan and I are very much in love, and i don't worry about him leaving me in such a case. But some people are left without help from their parents and without a home, so you really cant make it illegal cause then the child will almost definitely end up with one forked up life.
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