|
Post by Static Burn on Jun 26, 2004 17:06:17 GMT -5
Yea, so it came out today. Opinions?
Personally, my stepdad's been obsessing over the movie, talking about how great it's supposed to be. Meanwhile, my brother, my mom and I stand back and make fun of Michael Moore.
I have read a few articles on it, and pretty much every review I've heard is either "This is excellent! Everyone MUST see it NOW!" or "As is Michael Moore's style, this isn't a documentary. This is propaganda"
|
|
|
Post by Elfie on Jun 26, 2004 17:45:32 GMT -5
Michael Moore is to the left as Ann Coulter is to the right.
His movies are intriguing, but often information is misrepresented to make a case stronger than it is.
My brother used to believe everything Michael Moore says, but now I've got him reading one right wing book for every Michael Moore book he reads or movie he watches. Both sides do make valid points, it's getting swept up in one side that's dangerous. Remember, these people are writing what will sell books, on either side of the spectrum, which is not always the best representation of the truth.
|
|
|
Post by omeguz on Jun 27, 2004 2:46:02 GMT -5
well said Elfmeister!
I do realize that Moore often...bends the truth, or bends the acceptable facts a little. Nonetheless, I think "Dude...Where's my Country" is an excellent book, unlike Stupid White Men, which was boring.
|
|
|
Post by Static Burn on Jun 27, 2004 6:04:13 GMT -5
I think it's kind of funny... actually, not really funny, but just sad, how blindly some people follow him.
I remember one NOFX song has a line in it, something like "I listen to the truth being blasted by Michael Moore". And these are the people who supposedly represent the political views of everyone who listens to punk music.
|
|
|
Post by Elfie on Jun 27, 2004 10:26:12 GMT -5
Don't forget that it happens on the other side of the spectrum too, though. From what I've heard, in some places in the US, "liberal" is automatically equated with "evil" which is certainly a misrepresentation as well.
|
|
|
Post by Static Burn on Jun 27, 2004 16:40:43 GMT -5
Ah yes, we can't forget about the people who believe in the Demobots.
|
|
|
Post by stalin on Jun 27, 2004 23:40:47 GMT -5
I saw it today and was actually surprised by how few loose ties he made. Most of the stuff he brought up were good, strong points. Now of course, it wouldnt be Michael Moore without a few ridiculous thoughts but those are pretty obvious in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by DarkAngel on Jun 28, 2004 9:50:36 GMT -5
Yea...some of the ties he made were kinda...meh. But they were still ties. Bush has alot of connections. And stalin, the last part of the movie, with Bush saying that quote, that made me piss my pants.
|
|
|
Post by stalin on Jun 28, 2004 11:25:36 GMT -5
I'd heard it before and it is still, my all time favorite bushism.
|
|
|
Post by SuperBassX84 on Jun 28, 2004 23:08:41 GMT -5
And what quote might that be, oh wise ones? -=cough=-
I personally can't stand Michael Moore. He makes a living off of left-wing propaganda that panders to teenagers who can't even vote and rarely watch ANY political news what so ever, but will march around spouting how evil Bush is and how he never should've been elected. What's even more sad is that a lot of these same people can't even name important governmental figures. It's sad, really.
*If I offended anybody, I do not apologize, as if you are offended you are probably one of those people I described*
|
|
|
Post by Elfie on Jun 28, 2004 23:55:53 GMT -5
Secretary of State: Colin Powell Secretary of Defense: Donald Rumsfield National Security Advisor: Condolezza Rica Vice President: Richard Cheney President: George Bush
And I'm Canadian and too young, so I don't even have a stake in it, and I'd still vote for Kerry, not because I like him, but because I've looked at the issues and based my decision upon them. At least the audience for Michael Moore's movies can't vote. Bush targets the majority of Americans, the uninformed ones. His rhetoric about going out to get the evil-doers can't be beaten by logic in the eyes of idiots. The Vice-President can go out and say that he never confirmed or denied that Mohammad Atta met Iraqi officials in Prague, even when there's video footage of him confirming it. (It was later released that the meeting could have never happened because Atta was not in Prague at the alleged time because he was in Florida, yet Cheney defended the comment just last week, long after the meeting had been proven untrue.) He defends blatant falsehoods and people believe him! I watch FOX. I watch CNN. I watch The Daily Show. I read Newsweek and I read The Economist. You know what they tell me? They tell me that this presidency is runnning one of the largest deficits in American history and that while it provides temporary relief, it will end up hurting the country. They tell me that this administration is continuely ramming the same rhetoric down our throats, even months after the very same administration said it was untrue. You want proof? Here.
Newsweek, June 28, 2004. I've got it right here so I'll quote it. The vice-president said he called the president to confirm an order to shoot-down the one hijacked plan remaining. Except there was no written record of this call ever taking place. Not by Chief of Staff Libby, who kept records of everything, nor even by Cheny's wife, who was present at the supposed time. While the vice-president and the president later both testified that the call happened, the 9/11 report concluded that "there is no documentary evidence for this call". The article goes on to quote staffers who "flat out didn't believe the call ever took place". I'm sorry, but there were no records of this call ever released, and the two people that were with Cheney at the supposed time don't remember it happening. That's not right!
In addition, Cheney stated that the "commission had agreed the Iraq-Qaeda links were extensive". Yet the vice-chair of the commission says otherwise: "We didn't have any evidence of cooperation or collaberation". He added that Bin Laden's ties "to Iran and Pakistan were certainly stonger than any tie he had to Iraq". However, when asked if he had more information of ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda that the commission had not seen, Cheney replied: "Probably". Okay, except the administration spokepeople had said they "gave the commission whatever it needed to do its job". Naturally, with a puzzled nature the commission asked him to provide them with this intel. The administration has not yet responded to this request.
My point? I don't believe these people. They're saying things that fly in the face of what we would otherwise know to be untrue, and people still believe them because of their faith in this presidency. Bass, I honestly don't think it's lefties that are the only people guilty of not watching any political news. People seem to have already decided to either swallow everything one side is saying or what the other side is saying. There's no change. People watch news once a night. Half of the country picks FOX, half of the country picks CNN. The election is going to be decided by that miniscule percentage that takes the time to watch both, and I think Bush has a really weak case to present to anyone who watches both sides.
|
|
|
Post by kemykal on Jun 29, 2004 0:00:23 GMT -5
*clap clap clap*
that was wonderful Elfie. thanks for speaking my mind.
|
|
|
Post by SuperBassX84 on Jun 29, 2004 0:11:26 GMT -5
Damn. If Stalin wasn't here, I'd die. That was both huge and informative.
And I realize that lefties aren't the only ones not watching the news. GOP-type followers are guilty of the same thing. I was merely commenting on the teens who spout how evil Bush is who watch Michael Moore documentaries and who've never seen an informed news broadcast in their lives. I can't stand 'em. Can't stand uninformed people in general, whether righties or lefties.
Good job with the political figures. Most people wouldn't get past Bush. 20 pts. to Elfie!
|
|
|
Post by stalin on Jun 29, 2004 1:28:01 GMT -5
I completely agree. For every stupid ass republican there is an equal on the democratic side. Now I can happfully say I'm not one. Not just because I dont consider myself democrat, but rather communist, but because I read the whole newspaper everyday and watch the evening news whenever possible.
|
|
|
Post by Static Burn on Jun 29, 2004 7:42:31 GMT -5
You know, I saw something around the election of 2000, it was a survey that showed that foreigners actually know more about American politics than Americans do.
Also, it is true that Bush ran up the largest deficit, but not the most substantial. Franklin Roosevelt ran up a huge deficit, which is smaller than Bush's, but, adjusted for inflation, is much larger. Just like the largest tax increase was attributed the largest tax increase to Clinton, but the most substantial was right after Pearl Harbor if I'm not mistaken.
But, anyway, back to the movie. I think that kids see their friends watching Moore, and then they go around saying "Bush sucks, Bush sucks" without really knowing why. Just like a friend of mine said that Bush wasn't really elected because the President should have been chosen by popular vote and not electoral college. A lot of people don't understand that.
|
|
|
Post by stalin on Jun 29, 2004 11:07:54 GMT -5
He wasnt even elected by the electoral college, it was the house that finally did. The electoral college came to close, so the vote went to the house which had a republican maority.
|
|
|
Post by Elfie on Jun 29, 2004 11:25:59 GMT -5
The books I read said it was decided by the Supreme Court in a 3-2 decision, along political lines, of course.
|
|
|
Post by devo2 on Jun 29, 2004 18:03:42 GMT -5
Ugh.
Supreme court has 9 people, 5 Conservatives and 4 liberals. That's how the vote went. The vote was whether or not the Florida mess should count/be recounted, and the nod went to Bush 5-4.
The election didn't get sent to the house, though several in U.S. History did. With Florida's electoral votes in his belt, Bush legally had the necessary electoral votes to win the election. If you get 269 electoral votes, you win flat out. Bush had 271, Gore had 266.
|
|
|
Post by DarkAngel on Jun 29, 2004 19:30:21 GMT -5
I consider myself an informed person. I watch news often, am up to date on current events, and I read the news paper. And I still hate Bush. Not just because of his leadership...But the guy is a freaking idiot!
Well, no leader who has lost the popular vote has ever been re-elected...
|
|
|
Post by stalin on Jun 29, 2004 21:44:21 GMT -5
Woops, my bad. I, for some reason, always mess that up. Danke devo.
|
|