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Post by Elfie on May 6, 2004 20:38:34 GMT -5
"under God": I wish they hadn't put it, but to expend so much time by debating it in Congress would be a waste of taxpayers money. Leave it as it is and just don't consider it all that important. Of course, we don't have a pledge of allegiance, so I see it a bit differently.
I don't think public schools should have Bible classes, but I'm fine with Private Institutions having bible studies. People should be able to choose the kind of values they hold and are taught.
Never met one. Maybe its an American phenomenom.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on May 6, 2004 21:16:30 GMT -5
1) Well we do the pledge at our school, suposedly we're "marine city" or some crazy bull like that 2) I just find it a bit ironic that they would bother spending money on even considering having this type of crap, you know? Personally, i think they have it there in fear the church(s) might sue them or something 3) Oh, it happened once or twice to me before, probably because there's a morman church across from our school and i live pretty close to my school
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Post by Static Burn on May 6, 2004 21:17:25 GMT -5
1. I don't see why not. Every religion has some diety that can be refered to as 'God', so it's not like you're promoting or disregarding any religion by saying it.
2. I've never heard of a public school teaching Bible class, not in this day anyway. They used to, because at the time (latest date I've heard on this was the 1940's, although I haven't researched it) everyone was either Christian or Jewish, so no matter what you were reading your own religious texts.
3. Never met any door-to-door Bible salesmen, closest I've ever seen are Jahova's Witnesses and possibly Mormans who go around handing out literature. Normally I find the best solution is just to take it and throw it out once they leave.
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Post by Elfie on May 6, 2004 21:21:47 GMT -5
3. Never met any door-to-door Bible salesmen, closest I've ever seen are Jahova's Witnesses and possibly Mormans who go around handing out literature. Normally I find the best solution is just to take it and throw it out once they leave. I don't know. I might read a bit of them first. Its interesting stuff and helps you see another viewpoint.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on May 6, 2004 21:25:04 GMT -5
na, basicly all they sell to your is a brochure and maybe a bible or two, that's all. Static> My school has a bible club, it sickens me
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Post by stalin on May 6, 2004 22:51:05 GMT -5
I have the exact same stands as elfie. Though I must say I have met a few bible door to door people and had fun with them. There was a really fanatical one who told me if I didnt convert then I would go to hell. I then told him I'd see him there and shut the door in his face.
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Buddha
Parlor Mage
OMGWTFBBQ?
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Post by Buddha on May 7, 2004 6:48:12 GMT -5
Same thing happened to me Stalin. Some people are so ignorant.
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Post by Kodyn on May 7, 2004 7:57:20 GMT -5
I don't feel that we should bother changing the pledge, just don't force kids to say it if they feel offended. They used to, but now most schools I know allow kids to just stand. Hell, I won't even do that, because even without the religious part I don't want to salute the flag. I abhor patriotism for america, and would have to be payed to honor the flag. Plus it has ugly colors.
The bible class thing is I believe just in private schools these days, public schools would be sued.
I have been harrassed by many many jahovas, usually i hide, but when they find out you're home, they stay until you open the door. Once I answered the door while holding a shotgun...lmao, that was great, they got so nervous they were stuttering, and then just left halfway through. Other times I told them I was a satanist, or a godless heathen, and had already discussed with my travel agent plans for a window seat on the way to hell.
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Post by DarkAngel on May 7, 2004 13:24:06 GMT -5
Smooth Morb...hahaha If i see a Jahova coming down the street, i just lock my doors and put my dog outside...im sick of them trying to convert me> I usually just say im Jewish;D And personally i hate religion. Well...i just hate how some people do it...look at when they moved that monument to the 10 commandments. Everyone freaked out! Gimme a break, god wont hate you if a little monument is moved...gimme a break.
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Post by SuperBassX84 on May 7, 2004 14:14:27 GMT -5
1. The phrase "Under God" should not be in the Pledge of Allegiance. Static, you noted that every religion has a "God." What about Atheists? Even if you consider Allah, Jesus, Vishnu, or whatever to mean "God," which I do in such matters, it still is discriminate against Atheists and such. I say the Pledge out of honor for my country, but I know many people (including my girlfriend) who don't stand for the Pledge because of the words "Under God." That being said, there really isn't much use of a massive debate. The US Ninth Court of Appeals found it unconstitutional, but it more than likely won't be removed any time soon.
((History Lesson: The words "Under God" were added in 1954 under President Eisenhower, around the same time "In God We Trust" was added to money. These actions were a direct violation of the separation of church and state, and were only taken as a paranoid action to make ourselves seem more enlightened and good then the "Godless" Communists. As you may have guessed, it was smack dab in the middle of the Cold War.))
2. Private schools are perfectly fine to have bible and religious classes, so long as they A) Don't get ANY state funding B) Don't discriminate or force students to take the classes, especially if they are students of a non-Judeo-Christian Faith. If the private school is funded in any part by the government, then Bible Classes should not be allowed, and LK's school's "Bible Club" should NOT be official (unless I'm mistaken and it's a totally private school - LK, any info would be appreciated).
3. I prefer the Robin Williams method...
Witness/Mormon/whatever: -=Knock Knock=- Me: -=Opens Door, remaining covered and behind it=- W/M/w: "Have you found Jesus?" Me: -=Flings door open, standing naked=- "No! Why don't you come help me look?"
It's funnier if you see the actual show, but I think I did a decent job of explaining it. By the way, if you haven't seen "Robin Williams: Live on Broadway" do so IMMEDIATELY. You'll laugh for WEEKS.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on May 7, 2004 16:22:30 GMT -5
bass> I don't stand up for the pledge because of the words "under god" it's much more deeper then that, for example: I pledge allegance to the flag, of the united states of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisable and justice for all. I will not[/b] pledge my allegenace to any flag whatsoever, nor will i pledge it to the U.S, it sounds like they're going paranoid that's my reason for not doing the pledge, i kinda had to type if up (without spell checking it) to make it erm, better
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Post by Elfie on May 7, 2004 16:57:03 GMT -5
The US is the only Western Nation (that I know of) to have a pledge of allegiance. Commonwealth countries used to sing God Save the Queen, but we stopped a while ago.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on May 7, 2004 17:20:11 GMT -5
i think like... back in the 90's we had to sing the national anthem, i think
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Post by Static Burn on May 7, 2004 22:41:11 GMT -5
I see nothing wrong with a public school having a Bible club so long as they give other people of other religions an opportunity to form a club for their religion. A lot of public schools have voluntary religious things, like mine has a flagpole prayer every week or 2. I don't go to them, but I still respect their existance.
And honestly, I've never quite understood why people defend atheists like that. I don't think atheists really get offended when someone says God. I mean, I know that a lot of people who were deep-routed in their religion would be offended if a figure from a religion that wasn't their own would be offended.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on May 7, 2004 22:52:10 GMT -5
I see nothing wrong with a public school having a Bible club so long as they give other people of other religions an opportunity to form a club for their religion. A lot of public schools have voluntary religious things, like mine has a flagpole prayer every week or 2. I don't go to them, but I still respect their existance. And honestly, I've never quite understood why people defend atheists like that. I don't think atheists really get offended when someone says God. I mean, I know that a lot of people who were deep-routed in their religion would be offended if a figure from a religion that wasn't their own would be offended. I somewhat get offended when people say "god" or other crap like, think how I felt when i saw that my school supported "Christian sports" pff, what are we too "infedilic" for you people (not you guys, the christian soccer player people things)
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Post by Elfie on May 7, 2004 22:58:31 GMT -5
I used to be an atheist, so I'll explain. When something like the Pledge of Allegiance is said and has the word under God, it undermines atheism as a belief. It tells people that its not really a belief, its just a cult. Scientology is a cult, but a lot of people are atheists and to assume that every belief has a God puts atheism out on the peripheral as if it weren't a valid belief, which is an attack on atheists.
You're actually right though; this is an effort to be overly politically correct. Frankly I don't care about those fringe atheists who would be offended by that statement and I wouldn't have if I was an atheist. That said, I wish it had never been included, especially now that I've heard the context it was added in.
That said, the whole notion of a Pledge of Allegiance seems almost like brainwashing. You can't expect kids to say it every morning of every weekday and not be influenced by it. Maybe this is why the American people ask less questions of their government. The Consitution says things'll work right and I pledged my allegiance so I'm just going to be a good patriotic American and let it go.
You'll have to excuse me. I'm upset because I think I'm going to get in trouble on my AP American History Exam for attacking the American Revolution (also known as the First American Civil War). If anyone wants to discuss the stupidity that was the patriotic American Revolution, feel free to start a thread, but as you've most likely noticed above, I'm feeling rather anti-American tonight, especially after finding out what you guys did to those POWs.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on May 8, 2004 13:33:15 GMT -5
some of the pictures for that seemed a bit fake... Like the one with the guy/chick infront of a naked prisoner with their thumbs up just seemed... fake, anwyays, yes the pledge does seem to be a bit brainwashing, type it up and read it then you decide.
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Post by Elfie on May 8, 2004 13:36:03 GMT -5
Well its all over Canadian newspapers. There's one with a person on a leash that looks totally real.
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(LK)
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Post by (LK) on May 8, 2004 13:43:48 GMT -5
i wouldn't know about that, only the picture I saw looked fake, besides that's Canada
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