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Post by DarkAngel on Feb 3, 2005 20:51:02 GMT -5
Two days ago there were no attacks against U.S. troops or Iraqi civilians in Iraq, for the first time since the U.S. led invasion over 1 and a half years ago. The turnout for the election far exceeded everyone's expectations. Could this actually be a turning point in the war for Iraq?
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Post by Disgruntled Misanthrope on Feb 3, 2005 21:02:26 GMT -5
No.
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Post by SuperBassX84 on Feb 3, 2005 21:14:55 GMT -5
Well, that was a short debate.
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Post by piñata on Feb 4, 2005 11:30:46 GMT -5
The fact remains that we still shouldn't have forced democracy on a country that (although this might not be true in every citizen's case) didn't want it and probably can't handle it. We have absolutely no business there, and I won't have any hope for Iraq until our occupation force leaves.
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Post by Disgruntled Misanthrope on Feb 4, 2005 15:04:14 GMT -5
The sad thing is that I'll have even less hope after we leave.
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Post by SuperBassX84 on Feb 4, 2005 17:03:59 GMT -5
I was going to say nearly the same thing. Almost. Like this:
Me, on the other hand, I'd have less hope if we left before they were stable.
"Hey, here's a great idea! Let's go liberate this country, circumstances not withstanding, and then, when we've removed the old, nasty dictator from power, we'll just leave! I'm sure that they'll just naturally become a Democracy, or at least something peaceful, instead of falling into a massive civil war that would kill thousands more than if we stayed and probably leave an even worse dictator in power!"
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Post by Disgruntled Misanthrope on Feb 4, 2005 17:12:11 GMT -5
Of course, our saying any of this is pointless, considering the fact that we never will leave.
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Post by DarkAngel on Feb 4, 2005 22:21:54 GMT -5
We'll have to leave eventually. If the U.S. stays for too long, the political pressure for them to leave will be so high that they will have no choice but to leave. That and the fact that the 2008 election will be won on the candidate that says they will withdraw troops from Iraq, (if they are still there). Because honestly, no one wants the troops there, even the Pro-Bushers want to get out of Iraq ASAP. Anyways, Iraq has to run out of oil sometime.
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Post by Disgruntled Misanthrope on Feb 4, 2005 22:58:51 GMT -5
1: Why the hell should the U.S.A. fear political reprecussions? We've shown our complete apathy in that regard by entering Iraq in the first place.
2: True, Iraq will run out of oil eventually. But then, what's to stop us from going into the rest of the Middle East? Political alliances be damned. Saudi Arabia and the UAE have things we want, and looking at Bush's past term, it would seem that we go after what we want. I think our presence in the Middle East will be long-lived.
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Post by Static on Feb 5, 2005 7:24:08 GMT -5
I have a first hand source in Iraq who says that the majority of Iraqi citizens are actually happy to have the Americans there.
I personally think that Iraq will become more stable, but I don't think that it's ever going to completely stabilize, nor do I think that the US leaving will do anything to aid that process.
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Post by nerethel on Feb 5, 2005 17:11:58 GMT -5
i honestly do not think that there will ever be any true peace made in the middle east, because they are so different from all other nations. Of course, in every country, there will always be some group of people or person that will hate the other countires and want to blow them to hell and back, and i trust that the UN will hopefully get some stability in Iraq as for a leader, but of course there is also Osama.
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Post by DarkAngel on Feb 5, 2005 17:52:31 GMT -5
The U.S. will have to leave if the political pressure gets too high. They won't be able to function when every country on the planet is screaming at them to leave Iraq. They managed to invade Iraq like that because they said they had good intentions, but when they obviously stay too long in Iraq for no apparent reason, it will become obvious that they aren't there to liberate the people and such, and that they have other motives.
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Post by Disgruntled Misanthrope on Feb 5, 2005 18:27:57 GMT -5
There'll be reasons. As long as there are terrorists, there will be someone to lead them. And as long as there is a terrorist leader, we'll want to kill him. And if, by some astounding miracle, terrorism dies out, we'll make a new terrorist leader. After all, most people here gobble up what the media tell them. What's to keep us from believing some lie about a terrorist leader?
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Post by DarkAngel on Feb 5, 2005 23:50:20 GMT -5
Okay, I retract my previous statement. 34 people were killed in Iraq today by insurgents.
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Post by Elfie on Feb 6, 2005 22:49:54 GMT -5
I have a first hand source in Iraq who says that the majority of Iraqi citizens are actually happy to have the Americans there. Last time you said that I asked where he was stationed. You still haven't answered me.
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Post by Static on Feb 7, 2005 15:20:55 GMT -5
Sorry, didn't realize. Honestly, I'm not sure. I know that it's not in a major city, and I think it's an abandoned airport that got turned into an air base, but they do deal with Iraqi citizens on a day to day basis.
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Post by Elfie on Feb 7, 2005 18:59:03 GMT -5
Yeah, you just have to realize that most Kurds are happy to see Americans there, but they're only in certain cities.
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Post by Static on Feb 7, 2005 22:27:18 GMT -5
Well, from what I've heard from people who've reseacrched the grander scale, something like 95 or 98 percent of Iraqi citizens said they were grateful for what America had done, and all of the violence was being committed by a combination of people from the small, remaining percent, and from people who've been coming from other countries to fight.
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Post by Elfie on Feb 7, 2005 22:58:59 GMT -5
Then again, who isn't going to say their happy with the American invasion when they're being interviewed by soldiers that could kill them at a moment's notice. I'd be interested to know the source, but the fact of the matter is that those who are happy with the Americans come out and tell them. We record those. Those who are unhappy with the Americans hide and shoot at them from open windows. They're tougher to tally.
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Post by SuperBassX84 on Feb 7, 2005 23:03:16 GMT -5
Well hypothetically you could just use the body count....
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